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	Comments on: Mindfulness Accreditation or Suffocation	</title>
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	<description>Mindfulness For Challenging Times</description>
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		<title>
		By: Paul v		</title>
		<link>https://lovelifelivenow.com/mindfulness-accreditation-or-suffocation-2/#comment-666</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul v]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2016 20:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.lovelifelivenow.com/?p=1591#comment-666</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I keep reading this post it gets better every time]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep reading this post it gets better every time</p>
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		<title>
		By: Adrian Rides		</title>
		<link>https://lovelifelivenow.com/mindfulness-accreditation-or-suffocation-2/#comment-601</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adrian Rides]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2016 12:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.lovelifelivenow.com/?p=1591#comment-601</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Shelly thank you for taking the time to share your valuable knowledge.with us, we really appreciate your contribution to the Portal.

It would appear that we are in agreement on many things and in particular that real mindfulness teaching comes from the heart rather than the text book. When people ask me what should I read about mindfulness? My common reply is, &quot;if you really want to understand mindfulness do twice as much meditation as reading&quot;. The reading only points towards something that you realize through meditation.

I am also a great fan of Jon Kabat -Zinn and although at the Now Project we prefer a more direct way of working, the MSBR course is without doubt incredibly valuable and offers an easily digested route into mindfulness. Nothing has done more to make mindfulness available to the many than the MSBR course, and that is wonderful

I question, however, whether there really is such a thing a secular mindfulness. Even if your practice is purely mechanical and about nothing more than relief from some or other neurosis, something interesting happens. As the mind slows and we connect with the miracle of now, a new dimension to ourselves and to the nature of reality comes into focus. A depth that no academic can understand because quite simply the human mind is not that smart and the intelligence of the universe is far beyond it&#039;s limited grasp.  Although Kabat - Zinn doesn&#039;t really talk much about this, when you hear him speak, you feel his mindful radiance and he clearly points to this possibility without specifically referring to it. It&#039;s only fair to understand than Kabat - Zinn is a pioneer, for much of his career academia was hostile to his realizations, he challenged the established paradigm and ignored the considered opinion of academics. His great talent is to make the miraculous, scientific and rational so that academics can have something to grasp and this is how he came to be &quot;welcomed into the group&quot; and his ideas were allowed to spread. 

I have nothing against academic learning and I still use many things that i learned in my social work training many years ago. I&#039;ve abandoned lot&#039;s too; simply because as my mindfulness has deepened I find that a lot of it conflicts with what my mindfulness show&#039;s me is true. 

I&#039;ve also found that sometimes an academic paradigm can also be an obstacle to the truth and as a social worker I confess that i missed many things that were right in front of my nose because my mindset would not allow me to see. This is particularly common when someone&#039;s egoic identity, sense of worth and status is maintained through that paradigm. To acknowledge the existence of something outside of the paradigm would mean a destruction of self. Which is great from a mindfulness point of view, but at this stage of humanities awakening, is simply impossible for most people to do. Which is why to me academics are the last people I&#039;d want &quot;policing&quot; mindfulness.

Who would police the police? Who would police the police who police the police? Very soon you have a top down egoic structure that inevitably breeds status, and therefore ego, and becomes the poison of mindfulness. 

I&#039;m not suggesting that one should embark on teaching without training and our teachers generally have between 8 and 15 years training under their belts. Yes they&#039;ve read books, some of them have read dozens if books on mindfulness, but all mindfulness books say pretty much the same thing and ultimately their mindfulness training was done here and now in all the up&#039;s and down of real life. Not from s book and no certificate in sight..

I do share your concerns that when working with vulnerable people mindfulness teachers must be competent in working with trauma and frequently after the initial honeymoon it is common for repressed emotions to surface. This represent a wonderful shift in the practice and offers the potential for healing and transformation if handled mindfully, but. I do wonder though, whether the MSBR equips teachers to deal with this. Ultimately it is only the depth of the teachers mindfulness and their ability and skill in holding their own pain in mindful acceptance and loving kindness that allows them to show others the way through.



   I]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Shelly thank you for taking the time to share your valuable knowledge.with us, we really appreciate your contribution to the Portal.</p>
<p>It would appear that we are in agreement on many things and in particular that real mindfulness teaching comes from the heart rather than the text book. When people ask me what should I read about mindfulness? My common reply is, &#8220;if you really want to understand mindfulness do twice as much meditation as reading&#8221;. The reading only points towards something that you realize through meditation.</p>
<p>I am also a great fan of Jon Kabat -Zinn and although at the Now Project we prefer a more direct way of working, the MSBR course is without doubt incredibly valuable and offers an easily digested route into mindfulness. Nothing has done more to make mindfulness available to the many than the MSBR course, and that is wonderful</p>
<p>I question, however, whether there really is such a thing a secular mindfulness. Even if your practice is purely mechanical and about nothing more than relief from some or other neurosis, something interesting happens. As the mind slows and we connect with the miracle of now, a new dimension to ourselves and to the nature of reality comes into focus. A depth that no academic can understand because quite simply the human mind is not that smart and the intelligence of the universe is far beyond it&#8217;s limited grasp.  Although Kabat &#8211; Zinn doesn&#8217;t really talk much about this, when you hear him speak, you feel his mindful radiance and he clearly points to this possibility without specifically referring to it. It&#8217;s only fair to understand than Kabat &#8211; Zinn is a pioneer, for much of his career academia was hostile to his realizations, he challenged the established paradigm and ignored the considered opinion of academics. His great talent is to make the miraculous, scientific and rational so that academics can have something to grasp and this is how he came to be &#8220;welcomed into the group&#8221; and his ideas were allowed to spread. </p>
<p>I have nothing against academic learning and I still use many things that i learned in my social work training many years ago. I&#8217;ve abandoned lot&#8217;s too; simply because as my mindfulness has deepened I find that a lot of it conflicts with what my mindfulness show&#8217;s me is true. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also found that sometimes an academic paradigm can also be an obstacle to the truth and as a social worker I confess that i missed many things that were right in front of my nose because my mindset would not allow me to see. This is particularly common when someone&#8217;s egoic identity, sense of worth and status is maintained through that paradigm. To acknowledge the existence of something outside of the paradigm would mean a destruction of self. Which is great from a mindfulness point of view, but at this stage of humanities awakening, is simply impossible for most people to do. Which is why to me academics are the last people I&#8217;d want &#8220;policing&#8221; mindfulness.</p>
<p>Who would police the police? Who would police the police who police the police? Very soon you have a top down egoic structure that inevitably breeds status, and therefore ego, and becomes the poison of mindfulness. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not suggesting that one should embark on teaching without training and our teachers generally have between 8 and 15 years training under their belts. Yes they&#8217;ve read books, some of them have read dozens if books on mindfulness, but all mindfulness books say pretty much the same thing and ultimately their mindfulness training was done here and now in all the up&#8217;s and down of real life. Not from s book and no certificate in sight..</p>
<p>I do share your concerns that when working with vulnerable people mindfulness teachers must be competent in working with trauma and frequently after the initial honeymoon it is common for repressed emotions to surface. This represent a wonderful shift in the practice and offers the potential for healing and transformation if handled mindfully, but. I do wonder though, whether the MSBR equips teachers to deal with this. Ultimately it is only the depth of the teachers mindfulness and their ability and skill in holding their own pain in mindful acceptance and loving kindness that allows them to show others the way through.</p>
<p>   I</p>
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		<title>
		By: shelly		</title>
		<link>https://lovelifelivenow.com/mindfulness-accreditation-or-suffocation-2/#comment-599</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[shelly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2016 10:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.lovelifelivenow.com/?p=1591#comment-599</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I too truly believe that a mindfulness teacher must always teach from their own practice whether it is in a Buddhist context or a secular context.  As we know folks are now learning mindfulness to move towards health and well-being in a secular way.  The MBSR course was created somewhere around 35 years ago and it has taken me around 5 years to really embody the many meanings and and I am still learning.  I do have a Masters in Teaching Mindfulness from Bangor Uni and I know that this is an academic title and that my mindfulness teaching comes from my heart and my own practice and that is how I was trained.  I have learned a lot in the academic process as well like:  how to hold a group, how to teach and support vulnerable individuals, health and safety, etc.  I didn&#039;t learn any of this within my Buddhist Sangha where I started practicing around 20 years ago.  It&#039;s ok to support not having training when you are teaching meditation in a Buddhist Sangha (you still need some care here) to small groups of people but I think you need to open to the wider implications when teaching secular mindfulness to the general public and specifically to vulnerable individuals.  I am not the mindfulness police, but I am supporting people who are policing this as some of us who are doing this the right way and have trained for the right reasons need some help if we are going to survive in this &quot;mindfulness jungle&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too truly believe that a mindfulness teacher must always teach from their own practice whether it is in a Buddhist context or a secular context.  As we know folks are now learning mindfulness to move towards health and well-being in a secular way.  The MBSR course was created somewhere around 35 years ago and it has taken me around 5 years to really embody the many meanings and and I am still learning.  I do have a Masters in Teaching Mindfulness from Bangor Uni and I know that this is an academic title and that my mindfulness teaching comes from my heart and my own practice and that is how I was trained.  I have learned a lot in the academic process as well like:  how to hold a group, how to teach and support vulnerable individuals, health and safety, etc.  I didn&#8217;t learn any of this within my Buddhist Sangha where I started practicing around 20 years ago.  It&#8217;s ok to support not having training when you are teaching meditation in a Buddhist Sangha (you still need some care here) to small groups of people but I think you need to open to the wider implications when teaching secular mindfulness to the general public and specifically to vulnerable individuals.  I am not the mindfulness police, but I am supporting people who are policing this as some of us who are doing this the right way and have trained for the right reasons need some help if we are going to survive in this &#8220;mindfulness jungle&#8221;.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Andrew		</title>
		<link>https://lovelifelivenow.com/mindfulness-accreditation-or-suffocation-2/#comment-423</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2015 16:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.lovelifelivenow.com/?p=1591#comment-423</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Absolutely!  Thank you for posting this. Self made gurus with lanyards that announce their legitimacy to practice compassion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely!  Thank you for posting this. Self made gurus with lanyards that announce their legitimacy to practice compassion.</p>
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